Officially, Jake Thomas is a digital marketing expert who runs a newsletter. Unofficially, he’s YouTube’s biggest title nerd.
After years of honing his skills, he understands how to use psychology to get people’s attention and convince them to click. He’s written titles for videos that have gotten over 100,000,000 views on YouTube, and he runs a channel with less than 20 videos but around 100k subscribers.
In this fascinating interview, he shares the psychology behind successful titles, headlines, and ideas for everything from YouTube videos and email subject lines to blog posts and tweets.
Watch the Full Episode
Jake begins by sharing his backstory, and then dives into his specialty: YouTube title creation. He talks about how he got started writing titles, how he got better at it, and the results he was able to get when his skills improved.
He talks about his experience in different niches, from real estate investing to dogs, and how he’s been able to get up to 7 million views on his video while similar videos in the niche are only getting around 1 million views.
After that they really roll up their sleeves, and Jake talks about the psychology behind good titles. He talks about the importance of evoking curiosity, desire, or fear and how to go about that.
He talks about the value of creating a curiosity loop and how to go about it, with several specific examples, and then he moves on to fear.
Jake talks about how we’re wired to listen to warnings and pay attention to fear and he shares tips on getting away from cringy, clickbaity and fear mongering-type titles. He talks about using mistakes and regret as one way to evoke this feeling.
He then moves on to talk about desire, focusing on benefits, hopes, and dreams. He shares some ideas for doing audience research and then shares some great specific examples to illustrate the idea.
Jared asks him about using multiple emotions in titles and also about overusing certain structures. He talks about trending titles and whether or not you can use formulas to be successful on YouTube.
Shifting gears, Jake then talks about the main mistakes people make when writing their YouTube titles. These include being too wordy, too specific, too general, or too boring. He talks about the importance of knowing why your audience watches your channel.
Lastly, he shares his personal experience creating his faceless dog channel and how he created a video that got several million views over the course of just a few days.
Links & Resources
Topics Jake Thomas Talks About
- His background
- The stats he’s achieved
- Working in different niches
- Psychology behind good titles
- How to create curiosity
- Loops in curiosity
- How to use fear in titles
- Scarcity
- Using desire in titles
- Using multiple emotions
- Overusing title structures
- Using formulas
- Common mistakes people make
- Jake’s successes
Transcript
Jared: All right. Welcome back to the niche pursuits podcast. My name is Jared Bauman. And today we are joined by Jake Thomas with creatorhooks. com. Jake, welcome on board, Jared. Thanks for having me. Yeah. It’s good to have you. I’m excited for what we’re talking about today. Um, you and I were chatting before we hit record about all the different little case studies and successes you’ve had.
And I think we’re going to try to get through as many of those as possible while Learning from you. Why don’t you, um, as we kind of do on here, give us a little backstory of who you are, tell us about, um, you know, maybe your, your history and, and how you got involved in what you’re doing right now.
Jake: Yeah. I mean, just like super general overview.
I love marketing, online marketing. I love the, the scale and the leverage that you can, you know, like, especially with the, so YouTube titles, like currently I’m a YouTube title nerd, uh, being, going, uh, as deep as possible into YouTube titles for the last four or five years or so. And YouTube titles are just like five to 10 words, right?
But those five or 10 words can mean a difference of literally millions of views, thousands, tens of thousands of dollars. Um, you know, so just online content is just has almost infinite leverage if you know what you’re doing. Um, so that, I just, I just love that stuff. Um, a couple of, I got my start a couple of, uh, like 10 years ago now.
Um, I worked at some ad agencies. I ended up going in house. To a fishing company where I got my dream job was running, uh, Facebook ads. They’re ran the blog, ran the YouTube channel. That was a blast. And then I ended up going out on my own. I’m just nerding out about YouTube titles, started a newsletter.
Now I’m getting into the software game. Um, you know, started some, some niche websites and some niche, uh, YouTube channels along the, along the way. And I just, I love everything content. I love everything marketing. Um, yeah, just happy to have you talk about all the stuff, all the stuff
Jared: that we’re doing now.
I mean, we’re going to dance around, I think a little bit, at least looking at the agenda, but kind of lock in on this YouTube topic that you talked about and briefly teased, you know, uh, how, I mean, it makes it sound Uh, almost elementary, but the fact that you spend so much time on literally YouTube titles means also that it’s not elementary and that there’s tremendous significance to it.
I mean, creatorhooks. com is the simplest website I’ve ever been to, which almost underlies how simple, but not simple, a YouTube title is. Like, why don’t you kind of kick us off To your background in YouTube title creation, and maybe a couple more reasons why we should pay more attention to it and why we’re probably not paying enough attention to it.
Jake: Yeah, so, uh, so when I, when I first got my start in YouTube, my boss was a really good copywriter and he, and you know, their channel was growing. They were doing really well. They had just sold the business before this one. Um, and he, he was, he was really good at writing YouTube titles. So he brought me on.
He’s like, all right, Jake, Like the most important part of your job is to write a good title, because if you don’t write a good title, nobody’s going to click and watch our video. And if nobody clicks and watches our video, then we’ll have wasted all that time that we spent and all the money that we spent making that video.
And we’re not going to get any of those benefits. You know, we’re not going to get any views, subscribers, leads, sales, nothing. And it kind of, you know, it’s like the YouTube title is like the door that kind of opens up to your content. And if no one opens up that door. You don’t get anything from that. Um, you know, so he really hammered in the importance of YouTube titles to me.
And. I would spend hours, literally like, like all afternoon writing, trying to come up with like the best YouTube title. I’d send it over to him. And every single time he’d be like, try again, the six, try again, this stinks. And then he would like, after like the second or third try, he would just send over one title.
And it was always so much better than mine. And it’s like, dang, he just like came up with that, you know, so quickly after I spent literally hours trying to write a good title. And then of course, you know, his titles would do better than mine. We would get a couple thousand views or, you know, tens of thousands, a hundred thousand views, uh, you know, off of his title.
And I almost got fired cause I was so bad at writing titles. And that was like the most important part of my job. Um, and we had a, we had a 90 day trial at that job and I eventually figured it out. Um, and we, I think we tripled our subscribers in the time I was there. We like quadrupled our revenue. It wasn’t all because of me figuring out YouTube titles.
Um, you know, but, uh, you know, but that, that helped me save my job. Um, and, and it helped, it helped us grow our business. So, um, yeah, just. You know, learning what actually makes a good YouTube title kind of changed. I mean, literally it’s not to sound lame, but it changed my life. Um, and, you know, it changed our business and it changed my life.
And, and now I’m able to help other people write better YouTube titles because I, I don’t want to like, this sounds stupid, but I feel like sometimes I’m kind of dumb. We’re like, all right, I need you to spell it out to me. How do I actually write a good YouTube title? Cause you know, everybody’s like, oh, you got to build curiosity in your YouTube titles.
And it’s like, okay, cool. And now I’m going to build, I’m going to go build curiosity. Okay. How do I do that? Like no one actually like shares practically how to actually build curiosity in your title. So I kind of set out on that mission of like. Okay. I’m going to figure out what makes people click. Um, and I kind of should have known that I’d end up here.
I have a degree in psychology. Uh, I have like a, an Evernote list from like 2015 on like blog posts, titles that, that made me click. I’ve always loved the psychology of what makes people click. Um, and it’s cool that I, you know, nine, 10 years later, finally ended up there.
Jared: What kind of videos in terms of maybe, you know, watches or whatever metrics you want to, you want to use to evaluate, like what kind of scope and scale.
Are you talking about with some of the titles you’ve worked up and been behind?
Jake: Yeah. So two examples for you. So one, I, um, I was doing a little bit of consulting with this real estate investing company. Um, and you know, real estate investing isn’t the sexiest content, um, but they were getting, I think like 100 to 500 views before I started.
Um, we did nothing. I changed the title and I changed the thumbnail text and then we would often get, you know, 500 to 5, 000 views. So, um, you know, we, We, you know, up to 5x, uh, increasing views just by changing a couple words. Um, you know, we, we did nothing with changing the topic, nothing changing the, um, you know, the content.
It was just titles. It was literally just 10 new words instead of the old words that they used. Um, and we went from, you know, 500 to 5, 000 views. Um, and then you know, so that that was a that was a huge jump and like, you know, we’re talking about real estate investing Every
Jared: view is probably so valuable in that space, right?
Jake: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And then another example I’ve got a a faceless dog channel And, you know, everybody makes, you know, topics about a couple, uh, everybody makes successful videos about this kind of a couple topics. And I made a video about that same topic. I tweaked the title a little bit. Um, and the title or the video that I was modeling got about a million views.
Uh, my video got 7 million views, um, cause it was, uh, a better title. I mean, it was, I like to think it was better content as well. Um, but in this case it was, you know, seven times more views, 6 million more views. So, um, you know, it can be anywhere from like going from 500 to a thousand to 1 million to 7 million views.
Um, you know, and it’s a, it’s a big scope and it really depends on audience and all that stuff when we’re talking about actual views, but you know, that’s the power of better titles.
Jared: I’m glad you shared both sides of that because views are important, obviously, but it’s also contextual based on who you’re targeting, what you’re targeting, what type of a business model you have.
And so to some listening, the 7 million is the number they’re going after, right? But to many listening, they’re like, I’ve got a small business or I’ve got a product. I’ve got an e commerce brand. I’ve got something that. We’ll never hit 7 million views, but if I could go from 500 views per video to 5, 000, that would 10 X the amount of leads I get or the amount of buzz I get and that sort of thing.
So both sides are extremely valuable just depending on where you’re coming at it.
Jake: Oh yeah. 100%. You know, if you’re a, if you’re doing, um, you know, if you’re a web design agency, You could be getting a lot, a lot of, a lot more money from, you know, a hundred views to, compared to four or 500 views. Um, yeah. You know, because with, like, with my, with the faceless channel, I’m only monetizing through AdSense.
It’s a side project. Um, you know, so maybe, you know, I’m getting like five, $6 per, uh, per thousand views. So it’s like, you know, okay, sweet. Like that’s an extra $15,000 or whatever. But if you get a client that they’re paying you five, $10,000 a month. If you get two clients, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a ton more money.
That’s a
Jared: good point. So you teased it a little bit. You got a psychology background. You’ve got some sort of science, maybe it’s part science, part art. Not really sure. Let’s roll up our sleeves. I think this is what everybody wants to hear. Like, let’s get into the psychology behind successful titles. Um, uh, ideas, headlines.
These are different things. I mean, I, I. I know we’re going to focus on YouTube videos, but I, you had, you had kind of mentioned before we started recording that this can apply to other things like email, subject lines, blog posts, even tweets and stuff like that. But in the vein of the YouTube title idea, psychology, can you give us some insight into how to write these successful headlines and titles?
Jake: Yeah. So the simplest way to, to ask yourself, is this a good title? Is, does it evoke one of the three click worthy emotions? So curiosity, fear, or desire. Um, most successful titles evoke one, um, you know, two, one or two of those three emotions. Some, sometimes all three. Um, but, but yeah, just, you know, can you, is your, is your title evoking desire?
Is it evoking fear or curiosity? Um, that’s the simplest way. And then we can go kind of tactically below that. So if we want to talk about, um, evoking curiosity, if there’s a couple of different ways we can open up a loop. So maybe it’s, um, you know, uh, if, if I was to start a YouTube channel in 2025, uh, this is the one thing I would do.
That’s a super long title, but you know, this is the one thing I do, you know, that opens up a loop. Um, it kind of, it’s a cliffhanger is another way to think about it. Um, or like, you know, uh, you do this if you want to get more visitors to your blog in 2025. It’s like, okay, what is this? Um, just like the word, this is kind of the easiest way to open up a loop because it’s like, all right, do this.
Like, sweet. This is what I want to do. What is this? This is a cliffhanger. I’ve got to click. I’ve got to click on this video and see what they’re talking about. Um, you know, so, so that’s opening up a loop. We can also be counterintuitive. Um, you know, so one of my favorite examples of this is, uh, you know, the billionaire that works a normal job.
It’s like, wait a minute, billionaires don’t work normal jobs. Um, you know, that’s, it’s counterintuitive. It doesn’t make sense. Um, you know, luxury fashion is for broke people is another example. Um, you know, those are, there’s a counterintuitive. They’re Contrasting, uh, they’re challenging assumptions. Those are all kind of three different prompts, if you will, to build curiosity.
Um, and they just kind of make people do a double take, be like, wait, that’s, that’s not what I thought. That doesn’t make sense to me. Let me, I gotta see what’s going on here. Um, and then also, you know, talking about the future using the word weird. Those are all tactical ways to build curiosity. Now, did you want to, you want to dive into curiosity more?
Do you want to go into the next emotion or what do you do?
Jared: I want to ask you a question about the loop concept that you mentioned inside of there. Can you explain that a little bit more or go in more depth on that? Like what exactly is a loop as it relates to curiosity? And, um, is there, are there any types of content that that works best with?
Jake: So opening a loop is the most common way to build curiosity. So, uh, so I have a database of over a thousand viral YouTube videos. I’ve categorized it, you know, a bunch of different ways. Curiosity is the most common emotion. I think it’s like 60 percent curiosity, 60 percent of the titles, and then 40 percent have desire and 40 percent out of fear it’s, or 50, 50 percent have desire, 40 percent out of fear.
And then, and you can have. Uh, you know, multiple emotions, which is why 60, 50, 40, doesn’t
Jared: add up,
Jake: but out of all the, out of all the titles that have the build curiosity, I think, you know, almost like half of them have opening a loop. Um, and that’s, you know, you can think about opening a loop as starting a story, but not finishing it.
Um, it’s a cliffhanger. Uh, you can, you know, you’re, you’re just kind of, you’re getting someone to be like, wait, I need to, I need to know the rest of this. Um, so a couple of examples of opening a loop, um, something is about to happen in America. It’s like, okay, like, you know, what, what is about, what is about to happen?
Uh, the number one rule for calling deer. It’s like, sweet. I, I understand there’s a number one rule for calling deer, but like, what is that rule? Um, you know, the stunt that ended Buster Keaton’s career. It’s like, okay, what, what is this stunt? Um, so it’s really just, you’re just kind of, you’re saying what something is without actually saying what it is.
Um, and you’re, and you’re encouraging people to click and figure out. And, and usually it’s, you know, open loop is compared with desire or fear. So, you know, the, the, the stunt that ended Buster Keaton’s career, it’s kind of a scary, dramatic thing. Uh, the number one rule for calling deer. So yes, I really want to learn how to call deer this fall.
Um, you know, I’m trying to get, I don’t, I don’t know anything about hunting, but, um, you know, I’m trying to get a trophy buck. Um, so, so you, when you pair, you know, fear or desire with an open loop, that’s how you can like, you know, really get people interested in your content. Um, but the easiest way to do that is just use the word this and don’t specify what this is.
Jared: Okay. That, that helped a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I got a vision of like closing the loop in the video, but leaving the loop open ended in the title. Exactly. Fear. You mentioned that as the second one. Um, you mentioned curiosity is the biggest, but fear. Let’s talk about fear.
Jake: So fear, a lot of people, they don’t like fear.
Uh, I don’t want to use that clickbait crap. I don’t want to be a fear mongerer. Uh, and I get it. I 100 percent get it. However, if you look at the news, uh, it’s all fear, right? There’s a reason that it’s all fear. It works really well. Yeah. So, you know, and when you, when we think about our evolution, so let’s pretend like we live in the caveman era and I’m like, Hey, Jared, you know, you and I, uh, we’re in our, we’re in our little cave.
We got our wooly mammoth loincloths on. And I’m like, Hey, Jared, there’s some berries outside. You should go pick them. You’re gonna be like, maybe I will. Maybe I won’t. I’m not that hungry right now, but I’ll, I’ll think about it. But if I’m like, Hey, Jared, there’s a saber tooth tiger outside. Don’t go outside.
You are 100 percent going to listen to me. So we are, and if, and the people who don’t listen to warnings from their friends, they all died, right? They went outside and they met that saber tooth tiger, and they were not able to pass on their genes. Therefore, those people are extinct. So we are, we’re wired to listen to warnings.
We’re wired to pay attention to fear. Um, it’s in our biology, it’s in our genes. And if we use that in our titles, you know, in our, in our content, people are more likely to engage with it, to, to read it, to consume it. Now I mentioned. Uh, and back in 2015, I had like an Evernote list of titles that got my attention a couple of years ago.
I went back and I reread that. And all of those titles were all fear based titles. Um, and I don’t, I don’t think there’s a demographic or psychographic difference. It’s just everybody. Everybody’s interested in fear. So you might like kind of the easiest way to get away from feeling, uh, making kind of cringy and clickbaity and fear mongering content is to tell your own story.
So, um, my biggest mistake when starting my first blog. Um, versus like avoid this mistake when starting your first blog, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a slight tweak, but telling your own story makes it feel just a little bit better. Um, or, you know, my biggest regret, uh, you know, my biggest regret when I, uh, you know, starting my first YouTube channel, it’s like, okay, what is your biggest regret versus you will regret this when you start a YouTube channel?
Um, it, it, it, it takes the edge off. Um, it’s still using that really powerful element of fear. However, you’re just, you know, you, you feel a little bit, a little bit better when you’re telling your personal story. Um, as opposed to kind of being a little bit more aggressive and putting that on somebody else.
And then like some tactical ways of using fear, um, you know, talking about regrets, mistakes, and actual like scary things, you know, fears, um, you can talk about conflict and controversy. Um, you know, those are all tactical ways to kind of prompt your brain to think about a fear. And I kind of lump fear and negativity all in the same here.
Um, negativity wasn’t a great emotion. It didn’t sound, it didn’t, it didn’t have as good of a ring to it. Um, but I’m, you know, when I’m thinking about fear, I’m also thinking about negativity, like drama, um, and conflict, um, and stuff, stuff like that. But, um, but yeah, mistakes and regrets are two of my favorites and, uh, incredibly tactical ways to use fear.
Jared: That’s a good, I like how you, um, kind of have these little. Quick access points to each of these sort of emotions, you know, the, the word, this is kind of like a cheat card, if you will, to get into curiosity mistakes are almost like a, an easy way into the idea of fear. This, I hear a lot of people have, uh, that have success in this area before I’ve heard them talk about scarcity.
Is that inside of fear or where does scarcity play into something? And do you see that as another thing to use in YouTube titles?
Jake: Yeah, so I’m actually, so like I said, I have a database of a bunch of viral videos and I’ve been kind of categorizing them based on these, so I call them click triggers, um, you know, click triggers are, you know, regret, curiosity, fear, that kind of stuff.
Um, I have not seen that much scarcity or urgency. Uh, which I’m, I was surprised that I haven’t seen that. Um, yeah, I don’t, I think there are maybe in, in my database and it’s mostly educational channels. Uh, probably 800 of them are educational channels. Uh, and then, you know, the other, the other two or 300 are, you know, kind of more entertainment stuff, but, uh, but yeah, I, I think I’ve seen five to 10 titles with urgency.
Jared: Okay. And I’m
Jake: not sure maybe if it’s a, uh, if it’s a YouTube thing where, YouTube is typically more evergreen. It’s, uh, you know, it’s not as like, um, you know, it’s, it’s not as, as quick like the, the video, the content lasts a lot longer, whereas if you are, if you’re sending out an email, then yes, urgency would be great because people are reading this email and they’re kind of deciding whether or not they’re going to open it or take action right now.
However, a YouTube video could. Could last for, I mean, some last for five, 10 years, right? They’re still getting used. So urgency doesn’t really make as much sense there. Um, so that’s kind of the slight platform difference. Um, Instagram posts, Twitter posts, LinkedIn, email subject lines could all do great with urgency.
Um, you know, if you’re trying to get somebody to take an action, um, but most of the things that I’ve been studying are more just, you know, how can you get somebody’s attention and get their interest? Um, and it doesn’t, and obviously like, you know, I’m getting, I’m wanting somebody to take an action and I want them to click on my video.
Uh, but, uh, but yeah, it’s, I’m, I’m personally surprised how little I’ve seen urgency, um, urgency pop up and same with scarcity. Um, so, but yeah, I, I love those as sales tactics, just in my, in my notes, I haven’t seen them pop up as much.
Jared: Okay. Good to know. Okay. Um, anything else on, uh, fear or do you want to move on the desire?
Yeah,
Jake: I think, I just think that, uh, the biggest thing with fear is that most people kind of get it, most people get it wrong, you know, it is, it’s almost playing the content game on easy mode when you’re using fear and there, but there is a delicate balance, you know, you don’t want to, I mean, I’m not saying you don’t want to, some people do like a lot of these, uh, a lot of these financial newsletters.
Or the financial, um, you know, content media companies, they’re, it’s all fear, you know, it’s all like, you know, doom and gloom about the election, about the economy, and that can drive serious clicks and attention and money. Um, but you know, just be a little bit careful about your brand, um, and, and, and what, what you’re doing.
Uh, but also it’s incredibly powerful, so if you can use it, um, it’s a, it’s a really powerful tool.
Jared: Yeah. Well, that’s a good one. I mean, the news, like you said, it’s pretty much the number one driver for the news and obviously news gets tons of views. That’s a, that’s a widely known category for that. Um, okay.
Let’s um, let’s talk about the third and final one, the desire component.
Jake: Desire is I have all these cool analogies and explanations for, uh, curiosity and the fear desires just straight up, you know, we just want what we want. Um, the thing about desires, there’s a couple of different tactical ways to kind of enhance it, um, or to get people excited about your, uh, about your topic.
But for the most part, uh, you know, I think I heard this from Patty Galloway, who’s an awesome, uh, YouTube strategist is that if you’re telling somebody that they won the lottery. You don’t need to trick them into clicking. Just tell them, Hey, you won the lottery, right? So if you’re, I mean, if you are talking into somebody’s very specific desire, so maybe someone wants to make 10, 000 a month.
Um, use that, like use their exact words, use that specific example and use the words that they use to get them, grab their attention and get them excited. Like, oh, this is exactly what I’m looking for. Um, you know, and when we’re talking about desires, we’re talking about benefits, hopes, dreams. Um, but really, really getting to know your audience well, um, is the best way to leverage this, uh, leverage this emotion and, and really for everything.
I mean, that is like. All like click, uh, you know, curiosity, fear, desire. Those are all assuming that, you know, what is going to grab your audience, your audience’s curiosity. You know, what, what are their fears? Uh, what are their assumptions? Right. We, I think we talked about challenging assumptions earlier.
You can’t challenge your, your audience’s assumptions. If you don’t know what their assumptions are in the first place. Um, you know, it’s really, you know, busting myths like, and, and going against their false beliefs. Those are all great ways to build curiosity, but you have to know what your audience is thinking in the first place.
Um, kind of an, an easy, it’s almost like a cheat code now, but doing res, uh, audience research on, in, uh, like chat GPT or Claude is a great way to ask, Hey, you know, what, what are my audiences? Um, you know, false beliefs. What are their excuses? What are their, um, You know, what are their, what are their fears?
What are their desires? What are their hopes? What are their dreams? Like even be more specific. You know, those are great, uh, audience research tools. And also, uh, looking up in comments, like look at your, uh, your competitors comments, go see what your audience, uh, what your competitors are talking about. And then, and that’s another way to kind of get some more audience insight and, and really understand what their, uh, what their dreams are.
Another thing that you could do is, uh, heaven forbid you actually talk to them. Like you, you know, you get on it, get on the phone with them and, uh, and, and just get, get to know them. I mean, that’s the best way to, uh, to speak to their desires is to really talk to them, get to know them, and then use words and phrases and goals that they themselves are actually saying.
Um, you know, so that’s, that’s what, uh, that’s desire. And then to like enhance desire, uh, you know, so the, the lottery example earlier, if you’re telling somebody they won the lottery, like just tell them they won the lottery. However, most of your content is not, Hey, you won the lottery. Right. So we need to spice it up somehow.
So, um, you can use a timeframe. Um, so like you, how to get 10, 000 subscribers in one month or in 30 days. It’s like, Oh, cool. Like that actually enhances the desire. It makes it more tangible. Um, it’s like, all right, I know when I’m going to get it. Um, it all increases the desire because. You know, that it’s not how to get 10, 000 subscribers in five years.
It’s like, Oh, well that kind of, kind of stinks. It’s going to be broke for a long time. If I, you know, if I can’t do that, um, you know, so timeframes using authority, um, you know, how Mr. Beast got his first hundred thousand subscribers. Um, it’s like, Oh, this is how like the best in the, in the world did it.
Like now, like that kind of gets you excited about it. Add some credibility, add some name recognition to get your attention. Um, you know, so timeframes, authority, timeliness, dropping the current year in, um, is a, especially at like the change of the year. So how to, uh, how to start a YouTube channel in 2025, um, you know, it’s not just how to start a YouTube channel.
It’s like, Hey, Hey, This is relevant right now because at the turn of the year, everybody’s thinking about, you know, about, you know, something, uh, about the, the new year, the same thing with like, you know, if you’re trying to rank for like best, uh, best headphones, best headphones in 2025. So if you, if you look up on YouTube, best, almost any product review will have the current year in there.
Um, and that kind of lets you know, like, this is what’s happening right now. And, uh, and that kind of enhances the desire because it’s going. Uh, you know, you’re, you’re thinking about what does my audience want? They, you know, they want to know about these products and then kind of to enhance that they want to know that this relevant and this, this content and these products are relevant right now.
Um, you know, so, so timeframes, timeliness, uh, using the current year and authority are three of three kinds of simple ways to enhance desire and make those topics more exciting.
Jared: That’s a lot to digest. I’m guessing a lot of people are going to be pressing pause and going back. Um, I have some follow up questions about this.
Maybe I’ll start with, um, you already touched on using more than one of these. Curiosity, fear, desire, how often, like, Oh, well, not how often, but is the goal to use more than one? Do you think that if you can use two, it’s pretty much always going to be more successful than if you just stay specific to one?
Or is it really, um, you know, that you really want to take it on a case by case basis because it’s very, very dependent upon the actual content itself.
Jake: I
Jared: think it
Jake: depends, most of the times you’re just going to fall into two, um, so, uh, you know, with, with, uh, you know, just talk, let’s talk about search, let’s talk about best laptops, you know, if we’re, if we’re making, uh, or best, best, uh, headphones, if, you know, if we’re making a blog post about best headphones, maybe it’s, um, or, you know, blog post, YouTube video, you know, email, whatever it is, um, A great piece of content is going to be five best headphones for 2025.
Um, that’s kind of curiosity, I guess, because it’s like, Oh, what are these five best headphones? Right. And, but it’s, it’s mostly desire, primarily desire. Um, and also we could do, you know, maybe we’re making content about, uh, best headphones for engineers or best headphones for gaming or best headphones for music producers, um, you know, calling out a specific audience.
And that’s, you know, best headphones for music producers. It’s kind of all desire, right? Um, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit of curiosity, but that’s all desire. Um, and then when we’re talking about, you know, maybe it’s, uh, more not to rank and search, but to more kind of like interruption marketing, you know, when we’re trying to get in browse or the, or the homepage for you for YouTube, um, That’s often a mix of curiosity and fear or curiosity and desire.
Um, those are, it’s usually curiosity and fear, curiosity, and the desire. Those are, that’s the most common combos there, but, um, but yeah, what, you know, one example, my,
Jared: oh, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say, you were talking about that example. I’m thinking like, if you just want to go, you know, best headphones of 2025, but then you can see people doing a lot of like best headphones of 2025.
Number four surprised me best headphones of 2025 and the three worst headphones to not buy, you know, so you got the fear, you’ve got the curiosity, so you can kind of amp it up a bit. I see this in this example, that would be examples of what I see happen to decent amounts.
Jake: Yeah, no, I definitely agree.
Sometimes you can dilute the focus of your title when you are adding extra things at the end. So, um, and also it depends. So, like. A really popular like, you know, Buzzfeed thing back in like, I don’t know, 2015 was, uh, 35, uh, best gifts for, uh, for your mom. You’ll never guess number 17. Yep. And I think that people got a little bit burned out with that style.
Jared: And that’s why I wanted to touch on it. So I’m glad we’re going there. Keep going because you kind of, you mentioned a little bit earlier on the fear side of things. Like, how far do you go with it? And I want it, I have on my list. To talk about my agenda, like what are some of the ones that are overused?
And is that actually a thing? Can these things get overused? And do you need to pay attention to that?
Jake: Yeah, definitely. So yeah, I mean, yeah, there’s, there’s so much going through my mind right now, but the, you can certainly overuse it because you, you kind of, you rarely see a number 17 and you’ll never guess number 17, you know, you don’t see that as much as, but back in, you know, 10 years ago, you would see that on every single blog posts on Facebook, right?
So it’s, the, Things have changed. It’s the same exact strategy. We’re trying to open up a loop, right? The psychology doesn’t change, but kind of the tactical way of how you, um, how you evoke those emotions does. So, uh, you know, you can kind of just like kind of pay attention to your niche, just be, you know, be a member of your, of your audience and seeing, you know, what are people using?
What are people saying? Um, I wouldn’t be surprised if, In a couple of years, that kind of comes back in style. Right. Um, a lot of, uh, I read a lot of copywriting books, some from like the 1930s, like they’re almost a hundred years old and it’s, you’re reading it. It’s like, oh, this is the same stuff. Um, I I’m reading a, uh, I don’t have it with me.
Um, it’s a book from the eighties and you, I would have sworn that this was a book about how to, uh, how to have a successful YouTube video in 2025. Um, it’s Joe Sugarman’s ad week, uh, copywriting guide or something. Um, but he’s talking about like how important it is to get people to like read your first sentence and then get people to read your second sentence.
And then like the emotions and it’s like, Oh, this is just like, this is just YouTube in 2025, except this is a sales page that you were writing back in like 1975. Um, you know, so. Psychology doesn’t change, which is why I love this stuff, because the stuff that I’m, I’m learning now will be relevant forever, but it’s like, okay, what are the, what are the small changes that we make?
Um, and yes, you can, you can go like regarding fear. You can push it really far, but it depends on who your audience is. Um, if you are, um. If you’re targeting, you know, this, this sounds horrible, but like, you know, if you’re targeting white middle aged males and your finance or politicians, um, or like a finance or political company, then like, yeah, like lay, lay down the fear.
Um, if you are targeting more kind of. younger people who are used to the internet clickbait crap, then you probably want to lighten it up a little bit because I, you know, oftentimes they’re going to see it and like immediately think, oh, this is, this is clickbait, this is, this is crap. I don’t, this isn’t my style.
So it really depends on your audience and your brand. Um, and you know, and, and what is working. Um, and then also you can, you know, you can kind of burn out your audience. If you’re saying this is doom and gloom forever. I don’t know, maybe, maybe it won’t, maybe it won’t burn out. I feel like some of these media companies have been saying that forever and they’re still around.
Um, you know, but, but it’s certainly something to keep in mind. Um, and then, you know, and trends come and go. So a recent trend was 10 years of blogging experience in 10 minutes. Um, almost everybody made that version of that video, uh, you know, for their niche. And those did really well. And I don’t see them as much now, but I’m, you know.
It kind of seems like everybody made them, but you know, in a year, two, three, four years from now, I’m sure that they’ll still do well. Um, potentially everybody will be making them all at the same time, but that stuff will still do well. So trends come and go a little bit, but if you know, okay, I’m trying to evoke curiosity, I’m trying to evoke fear.
Um, then. Then you’ll, you’ll set yourself up for success. Um, but yeah, just, just being a, being a student of, of media and being a member of your, of your niche can kind of help you make those decisions. I
Jared: I’m just, it sounds like you need, you know, it’s not as simple as utilizing a formula, you know? The formula is there, but it’s more than just a formula.
You have to be a part of what’s working, a part of what your competitors are doing, a part of the industry, because you have to understand your audience. You have to understand what’s trending, what’s out of out of vogue nowadays and use this. Formulaic approach you talked about in a very tactical way.
But then there’s all these other things that you also have to know, almost the artistic side of the, uh, of the, of the, the puzzle, if you will.
Jake: Yeah. So it depends on where you’re at in your journey. When I was first getting started, when I knew nothing about. What made a good title. I was only following formulas.
Um, I would, I would never, that was, that was a thing that helped, helped me save my job was I would, let’s say we were making a video about, um, best fishing reels. So I would go to YouTube and I would type in. Best vacuum cleaners, best makeup brushes, um, best laptops. And I would see how did they write their titles?
And I would just write my title exactly like theirs. Um, and eventually after I, we did two videos a day, plus two emails and two blog posts a day for three years. So I wrote like, I don’t know, one or 2000 titles. Um, so I eventually figured it out. Um, but after modeling, uh, Modeling titles a thousand times and seeing what worked, then I finally got my, um, I kind of, I got my own style and my own voice.
And now, okay, I know what works. I don’t have to follow a model exactly, but when you’re first starting, you might as well follow a model of, you know, a formula exactly, you know, to a tee. Um, and then, you know, eventually you’ll figure out what you like, what your audience likes, what your content is, but you know, for when you’re just starting.
I 100 percent think that you should totally be formulaic. Um, if you don’t, if you don’t know what you’re doing, like I did, like I didn’t know what I was doing a couple of years ago. Um, so, so yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s the, the easiest way. And, and you want to, you want to look for, um, for titles in competitive niches.
Um, if you go to like some, you know, totally open, wide open niche and you get the best title, it might just, You modeled the best video. It might just be because there’s nobody else to, uh, to compete with it. And it’s the only video on that subject. So yeah, of course it did well. Um, but if you go in, uh, if you go fitness, uh, finance, makeup, you know, all those competitive niches, the, um, you know, the competition is going to drive the quality, so that’s, you’re more likely to find a successful video to model after that.
Um, and that, that was, that was what I did. I only, I only modeled, um, only modeled, uh, titles from successful channels in competitive niches to kind of increase the odds that this wasn’t just a fluke that this video did well.
Jared: We’ve spent most of the podcast talking about what it looks like to make a successful title.
Uh, let’s transition and talk about mistakes, common mistakes, mistakes, you see mistakes that people make. We’ve kind of moved into that topic already talking about some of the stuff that goes into the out of date or the, you know, the overused titles. What are mistakes people can be wary of and, um, avoid.
Jake: Yeah, the first one is being too wordy. Um, and this is very platform dependent. Uh, you know, if you’re writing an email subject line, you know, you probably want to be under, you know, a certain amount of characters. If you’re writing a blog post, you want to be under a certain amount of characters. You have to rank on Google.
Um, and then same with, uh, with YouTube, you know, the, the emotions will, they will all be the same, but, but the specifically the character count will be different. Um, you know, and when we’re, you know, back to the example of, you know, You know, 35 best gifts for moms. You’ll never guess number 17. That’s a very long title.
Uh, so there’s a couple problems with. On, on YouTube specifically, so we’re going to go pretty deep here, but, um, if you’re trying to rank in search, you can get, you can get away with longer titles because people are actively searching and deciding whether or not they want to watch your video. Does this title deliver on what I’m looking for?
Right? So they will, they’re, they’re going to spend some time reading it. Um, so you can get away with longer titles. And like kind of answering their specific question. And if you are trying to, uh, to have your videos be on the sidebar or on the homepage, you are, it’s almost like interruption marketing where you’re trying to stop somebody in their tracks and like, just like kind of pull them right away into your video.
And first off, there are more potential views that way typically. Um, so it’s a, it’s a great, if you’re trying to maximize these, it’s a great strategy. Um, and if you have a long title, people aren’t going to spend that mental energy of reading the whole thing, deciding if they’re going to click and then watching your video.
Um, so typically you want to have a little bit shorter titles. Uh, if you’re trying to. Grab somebody’s attention and maybe that’s also, you know, maybe on Facebook, you’re trying to grab somebody’s attention and bring them in. You probably want to have a shorter title just because it’s less mental effort to read it and decide if, if they want to watch that video or, or read that click and read that blog post.
Um, With email subject lines, it’s a little different because with an email subject line, you’re seeing who it’s from, which is probably the biggest driver of, is somebody going to click or not? Um, you know, if I get an email from Alex Ramosi, I’m probably going to read it because I like his content. Um, if I get an email from somebody I’ve never heard of, one I’m mad, but two, it better be at a really, really compelling subject line because I don’t want this person’s content in my, in my inbox.
Um, you know, so, so those are kind of some difference in platforms, but, um, but yeah, you, Being too wordy is a huge mistake that many people make, um, and often it’s because it requires too much, um, too much mental energy to decide if they want to watch this or read the whole, the whole title and decide if they want to watch the video, but then also, um, It’s very specifically on YouTube, the title could get truncated.
So, um, you know, after X amount of characters, all you see is a dot, dot, dot. So if you, you know, write this super long title, like the number one thing I wish I knew before I started a YouTube channel, well, a YouTube channel is a subject, but it’s probably going to be truncated because the number one thing I wish I knew before I started is all going to be first.
So, um, you know, so if the main subject is truncated, then you’re probably not going to get people to click. Um, so that is, that’s One of the biggest mistakes is being too wordy. Um, you can also be too specific and you can also be too general. So, um, those are, those are really tough, um, kind of tough examples to follow.
But, um, you want to, so let’s say we’re making a video about cameras. If we can be too specific. So like, uh, you know, uh, I tried the Fujifilm X 100 VI 2. 3 or something. Uh, and it’s like, okay, like, I, I don’t know what that is. Um, unless you do know what that is, um, unless you know exactly what that is, you’re probably not going to click, um, because it’s too specific.
Um, you could also say, I tried this camera. And it’s like, okay, like, what is this about? Um, and that would be an example of being too general. So you, you kind of need to find a sweet spot between being too specific and too general, um, for the most people or for the most part, most people can kind of figure that out.
Um, but another, you know, one way of. Getting around being too specific is to give somebody something a label. So I tried the best camera for vlogging or this Fujifilm camera is, uh, the best camera for beginner YouTubers. You know, I’m talking about, um, high level benefits is a great way to get people’s attention as opposed to saying, you know, my review of the Fujifilm, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Um, and I know nothing about cameras. Um, so I’m sorry if you are listening, I’m sorry if you’re listening to this and, uh, and. And critiquing the
Jared: cameras have X’s in them. So you, you know, you’re, you’re doing a pretty good job.
Jake: All right. Good. Good. Um, yeah, I mean, that’s a specific example that I’ve seen people mess up and people, uh, do right.
So, um, and then too boring. Uh, you know, not including the clicker or the emotions being too boring. And then this is a YouTube specific problem for the most part. Um, although I’m, I’m sure it applies to other, uh, other platforms, but talking about the wrong topic, uh, and this is, this is by far the most common problem.
So I have a newsletter. I, each week I sent out five viral video ideas, but I also have a flop of the week. Um, and it’s like, all right, you know, let’s talk about a video that did really poorly and
Jared: yeah,
Jake: 80 percent of the time. The video is about, uh, is about the wrong topic. And I actually, I. It came, it came, it kept popping up so many times that I had to start, like actively looking for new channels that had different flops because people, you know, making videos that flop that were about the wrong topic popped up so many times.
So I’m like, all right, I can’t write the same exact flop of the week breakdown every single week because it was about the wrong topic. Um, but so let’s say, you know, going back to that, that camera, um, example, you know, if you have a, if you’re reviewing Fujifilm, maybe people. Only want. Your maybe you’re only known for Fujifilm cameras, right?
So if you review a Sony camera, you’re not going to get people’s attention. Um, it could be as specific as that. It could be, you know, maybe you would talk about cameras, but now we want to talk about microphones or lighting. Well, that’s not what people, that’s not why people come to your channel or maybe it’s social media tips.
That’s not why people come to your channel. And then on the other hand. There are some, some people who can talk about anything and people will love that. So a kind of, you know, one way to kind of kind of balance this is to know why people watch you, uh, do they watch you because of you or do they watch you because of a topic, um, you know, you’ll often see.
Educational channels have views like, all right, a thousand views, 10, 000 views, 500 views, 50, 000 views. It can, it can really vary. And that’s because the audience is there for the topic. But if you look at entertainment channels like Mr. Beast, his views don’t really vary that much because people are there for Mr.
Beast, right? Um, they are there because they, they love him. They like him. They, they want to watch his videos. So typically entertainment channels. Have a more, have more consistent views, whereas educational channels can be more up and down. And that’s for the most part, that’s because people who are watching educational videos are there for the topic.
Um, so yeah, so just, you know, knowing why your audience watches your channel, uh, and then delivering on that kind of promise or that premise is a great way to, uh, to avoid flops and to consistently, uh, have, you know, successful videos.
Jared: I want to leave a little bit of time to hear some practical stories about you putting this stuff into practice.
I mean, you talked about the fishing brand that you were a part of for a couple of years. Uh, you mentioned, um, uh, a faceless YouTube channel. Like, can you walk us through some of your successes you’ve had on, um, on different projects on YouTube? So people can really get a taste for what’s possible.
Jake: Yeah, yeah.
So the faceless, the faceless, all right. So backing it up. So I have a newsletter, uh, that, that breaks down five viral video titles every week. And then I was like, all right, well, let me monetize this newsletter somehow. I started with consulting, a little bit of consulting. That was cool. I like products more than I like clients.
So I was like, all right, I need to find, um, I need to find a product. And so I asked people, I was like, Hey, what do you all, what do you all want from me? Do you want a book? Do you want a course? And a lot of people were like, Hey, we just want more ideas. And a lot of people were telling me, um, they were saying, Hey, I actually take everything from your newsletter and I put it into a notion sheet.
Like. Here, this is what I’m doing. And I figured, all right, like, if that’s what people are doing, I’ll just, I’ll make a software. Um, so I decided to make a software. I’m like, you know, it’d be really cool if I could have kind of a case study of proving that this stuff works. So I started a faceless channel.
It’s about dogs. And then I think a couple months into it, it made more than my product was making. Um, and I’m like, you know, I don’t, I don’t want to share this as a case study. Um, because I, I think. My, like fourth or fifth month, I had a video go viral, couple million views, and I, I, well, I, I missed out on a couple thousand dollars I got.
So with YouTube, you, uh, can monetize at like 4,000 watch hours and 1000 subscribers. When I launched that video and I published the video, I had like 750 subscribers, and then that video went on to get like four or 5 million views in. I think it got, it got a million views a day, two days in a row. Uh, so it went, it did like four or 5 million views in like a week.
Um, which was awesome. And that was an incredible, uh, rush and, uh, an incredibly overloading dopamine sensation. That was my first like super viral video. Um, getting a million views in a day was crazy. Um, very cool. And then after that. Like videos would get like two, three, 400, 000 views. I’m like, Oh, this sucks.
So it just totally, it totally ruined everything on YouTube for me. Uh, and I haven’t, that’s, that’s my best video. It’s, it’s been like two years and I haven’t had anything close to that. But, um, uh, but yeah, no, so that did, I haven’t published on that channel in, I think over a year now, I’ve been focusing on the software, but, uh, it’s almost a hundred thousand views.
It’s like 90 something and it has less than 20 videos. So, um, yeah, so it’s possible to, and it made, you know, I had a couple of 10, 000 months, which was really cool. Um, just through AdSense, a little bit of Amazon affiliates. I don’t see, I thought that Amazon affiliates was going to be a much greater percentage of what I earned.
Uh, but. When that video did viral, I think it, I think it mentioned like one or two products, um, and like, and told people go to Amazon and buy this, you know, it’s in the, it’s in the description. I made, I don’t know, like 10, from AdSense and two or 300 from Amazon affiliates. I, and it’s, it’s probably because of the intent that the audience is watching the video.
It’s just a funny, entertaining, not, it’s not that funny, but it’s just like an entertaining stupid video. It’s not like, here’s how to do like, you know, here’s how to do something, uh, you know, go get these products to do it better. Um, you know, so it’s, that’s probably what the. I don’t want to say the problem is, but that’s probably the reason why, um, but that, but yeah, I thought I was like, Oh, this is going to be like a 50, 50 split between affiliates and, um, and AdSense.
But it was definitely, it was not, um, since then I don’t, I don’t, I try to just keep everything on YouTube. I’m like, well, if it’s, It’s going to be like five, two, like 2 percent or 5 percent of my income. I’m just going to double down and try to get as many views as possible. Um, so, uh, so yeah, so that, that was, that was awesome.
Um, I have used this stuff to rank number one on Google as well. Um, I had a dog blog a couple of years ago and as I was kind of learning this stuff, I was, I was ranking number one using, you know, uh, like I think. You know, authority and curiosity and desire. Um, those were some of the emotions that I use to, to rank number one on Google.
Um, you know, for, for a while I had like 50 percent email open rate. Um, you know, just using the same stuff. Um, I mean, it’s just, it’s just psychology and I, and I love it. And once you kind of. understand that, then it’s like, Oh, I can use this for everything. Um, you know, and one of my best, uh, one of my best Twitter threads is 90 percent of people are making their YouTube videos backwards.
And that was based off of a, uh, a YouTube video that was 90 percent of people are decluttering backwards. So, you know, it was cross niche cross platform. Um, but that, but that did really well for me. Um, you know, so. I, and YouTube is like kind of the best for, uh, for seeing if hooks are working well, because YouTube shows you the date that it was published and it shows you the views.
Um, so you can see like, Oh, like this did really well. It did way better than everything else on its, um, you know, on the channel and it was published a month ago. So I know that it hasn’t been ranking in search for 10 years and that’s why it’s doing well. Um, you know, so it’s, it’s a great way to get inspiration, uh, for hooks of, of really of all, all for all platforms.
Jared: He mentioned, uh, you know, your, your email newsletter. Where can people find you and, and learn more? I’m intrigued. I’ll be signing up for the weekly drip of five good titles in one bad one. And I’m going to hope that you don’t discover my YouTube channel and I end up on the bad list someday. But besides that, like, where can people follow along with what you’re doing and keep up and learn more?
Jake: I always feel so. I’ve had a couple people email me like, Oh, Jake, I love your newsletter. I noticed you included me in the flop. I’m like, no. I, I try and I only include people that I also like, you know, their video did very well. I’m not just bashing people, but, um, but yeah, that’s a creator hooks. com. So I’m sorry, uh, yeah, creator hooks.
com is the, uh, the most basic website you’ll ever see. Uh, but it converts it like 75%, uh, from like, you know, visitors to, uh, to email, you know, subscribers.
Jared: After interviewing you here for the last hour, I can guarantee with certainty that you have made sure that that is a great page for conversion because I can tell just how dialed in you are.
So I’m sure that page has a very strong purpose for being the way it is.
Jake: Yes. Yes. It’s yeah. I mean, my, my single goal of my business is to get newsletter subscribers and. Everything else will follow. Um, but, uh, so yeah, so that’s why it’s a very, it’s a very basic website. As you will see if you go visit it.
Jared: Well, Hey, um, Jake, this has been absolutely fascinating. I really enjoyed this because it was very tactical. Like you brought so many practical things that people can, you know, really kind of used to knuckle into your, to, to your, your, your, uh, your approach. And I like what you said when you said like, Hey, if you’re brand new at this, going very formulaic is a great way to do it.
And really like the formula was all here in this interview, but at the same time, like there was so much in what you shared with examples. And, you know, going beyond just the formula. So it’s a really well rounded, um, uh, interview you did. I just, I really appreciate it. And I, I’m, I’m really excited on my own accord to rewatch this actually, and, uh, take notes this time rather than just being the interviewer.
So thanks for coming on board.
Jake: Yeah. Thanks Jared. Yeah. I, I love this stuff. Obviously I can talk about it all day. Uh, then yeah, it was, it was, it was awesome talking about this.
Jared: I appreciate you. Well, awesome. Jake, thanks so much until we talk again. Have a great rest of your day. Sounds good. You too, Jared.
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